Vegetables FAQ

Italian food alternatives

Question:

> Despite the numerous posts re: Chinese food in Italy the above advice does, > interestingly, have a reasonable basis under it.  Chinese food (unlike Thai and > others in that area of the world) is based far more on ‘processed’ ingredients > than fresh.  This makes authentic items readily obtainable by mail (because > they  can be canned and bottled — and thus travel well).

I had to ROTFL about Chinese food in Italy, because of one thing that happened to my boyfriend and I on our first trip to Italy together, almos 8 years ago. I’m French and Swiss, he’s Italian and Swiss, and we both love Italian food, but we were in Padova in August and almost all restaurants were closed. There was this Chinese restaurant near the hotel, and my boyfriend insisted that we eat there – I wasn’t very enthusiastic, but what the heck, at least it was open… Well, it was the most bland and MSG-loaded pseudo-Chinese food I ever ate (and I eat Chinese regularly). Really bad. Cheap, fortunately. So I said jokingly that from now on Chinese restaurants in Italy were censored – and now we have a private joke about it, every time we are in Italy and see a Chinese restaurant we call it a "beep" (as in "beep" – censored!). Nathalkie in Switzerland

Response:

Nathalie says: >ROTFL about Chinese food in Italy, because of one thing that >happened to my boyfriend and I on our first trip to Italy together, >almos 8 years ago….Well, it was >the most bland and MSG-loaded pseudo-Chinese food I ever ate (and I eat >Chinese regularly). Really bad…. >every time we are in Italy and see a >Chinese restaurant we call it a "beep" [sic] (as in "beep" [sic]  -

censored!). Let’s see…One experience….8 years ago…very cheap place….Chinese in Switzerland the reference point….. Sounds like the ultimate *beep*ing generalization.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Nathalie says: >ROTFL about Chinese food in Italy, because of one thing that >happened to my boyfriend and I on our first trip to Italy together, >almos 8 years ago….Well, it was >the most bland and MSG-loaded pseudo-Chinese food I ever ate (and I eat >Chinese regularly). Really bad…. >every time we are in Italy and see a >Chinese restaurant we call it a "beep" [sic] (as in "beep" [sic]  - > censored!). > Let’s see…One experience….8 years ago…very cheap place….Chinese in > Switzerland the reference point….. > Sounds like the ultimate *beep*ing generalization.

Dont know about Chinese food in Italy, but I can say that Chinese food in Madrid is uniformly awful.

Response:

Your’e not the only person to find that the quality of chinese food in Italy is so poor.Maybe this is because that natural Italian food is so very different in taste and texture than chinese?I have also found that the U.K is pretty good for ‘foreign’ food compared to other EU countries,after living in quite a few of them.Saying that though there are a few differences in countries that I would welcome into  the U.K,such as shorma and a decent U.S stle bbq shack!!!!!!! — Jon Hunter, Dunphail, Scotland It may be damn cold, we may not have digital tv or phones, but we bath in mineral water!!

Response:

I know, I know… I wasn’t saying all Chinese restaurants in Italy are bad, just that I can’t see one without laughing… I told you, our own private joke. Nathalie in Switzerland – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Nathalie says: >ROTFL about Chinese food in Italy, because of one thing that >happened to my boyfriend and I on our first trip to Italy together, >almos 8 years ago….Well, it was >the most bland and MSG-loaded pseudo-Chinese food I ever ate (and I eat >Chinese regularly). Really bad…. >every time we are in Italy and see a >Chinese restaurant we call it a "beep" [sic] (as in "beep" [sic]  - > censored!). > Let’s see…One experience….8 years ago…very cheap place….Chinese in > Switzerland the reference point….. > Sounds like the ultimate *beep*ing generalization.

Response:

>writes >There are excellent Indian restaurants in London because of the large numbers >of immigrants from that region, as well as other cuisines. Some people say >that the best food in England is found in the ethnic restaurants. >Especially if you include French as Ethnic (as logically you should). It >does however seem that Italian restaurants (or Chefs) travel to the UK >less well than French ones.

Off topic but if anyone wants to see why ethnic restaurants seem to translate so poorly into another country, go watch the movie ‘Big Night’ (USA 1997) replace royaumeuni with the abbreviation of the U_nited K_ingdom of England, Scotland, Wales & N. Ireland  to reply

Response:

Marietta suggested: > When in doubt, in Italy or anywhere else, eat Chinese.

Despite the numerous posts re: Chinese food in Italy the above advice does, interestingly, have a reasonable basis under it.  Chinese food (unlike Thai and others in that area of the world) is based far more on ‘processed’ ingredients than fresh.  This makes authentic items readily obtainable by mail (because they  can be canned and bottled — and thus travel well).   I do agree, though, that a better approach is to aks the natives what significant immigrant populations exist in their area — that’s how you get good ‘ethnic’ food in any given city….

Response:

More than thirty years ago "Tagliolini alla Alfredo" was a famous recipe of a famous restaurant in Rome ( Alfredo). Tagliolini are similar to spaghetti but with square section.  They were done with a lot of butter and parmisan so that they were also called with triple butter.. The peculiarity of this dish was mainly due to the solid golden cutlery that  Alfredo  used to give to the clients  to eat it. Francesco B&B La Puta- http://members.tripod.it/atreo/

Response:

writes >There is also the possibility that the person who decides to open a restaurant >in a foreign country was an accountant in his native land and knows little >about cooking.

There is the unfortunate probablility that if he is/was not an accountant the restaurant will not last for long. — Michael Forrest

Response:

writes >There are excellent Indian restaurants in London because of the large numbers >of immigrants from that region, as well as other cuisines. Some people say >that the best food in England is found in the ethnic restaurants.

Especially if you include French as Ethnic (as logically you should). It does however seem that Italian restaurants (or Chefs) travel to the UK less well than French ones. — Michael Forrest

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Usually in every place the best choice is the local food. I didn’t like > Chinese cooking (as tasted in Chinese restaurants in Italy), but when I > went in China I found very good and enjoyable restaurants there; on the > contrary, Italian cooking outside of Italy is often questionable. > I would explain this in two ways: > *it is not always easy to find the correct ingredients or spices in a > foreign land (for example is very difficult to find a good mozzarella > outside of Italy, thus ruling out the original pizza recipes); cooks > have to use frozen or canned ingredients instead of fresh ones or > substitute them; > *often the migrating cooks come from a particular region of their home > country, and they are at ease only with their own regional cooking (not > with all the recipes they have to prepare).

There is also the possibility that the person who decides to open a restaurant in a foreign country was an accountant in his native land and knows little about cooking. However, there are exceptions. There are excellent Chinese restaurants in the larger cities of the US, where there are enough Chinese immigrants to ensure that there will be Chinese food markets, even market gardeners who grow the vegetables needed for Chinese cuisine. Many Chinese restaurants in the US specialize in the cuisine of a particular region in China. There are also other nationalities that have excellent restaurants in the US. People who have been to Thailand tell me that some of the American Thai restaurants are very good, although there don’t seem to be that many Thai immigrants in the US and all the waiters in these restaurants seem to be Chinese. There are excellent Indian restaurants in London because of the large numbers of immigrants from that region, as well as other cuisines. Some people say that the best food in England is found in the ethnic restaurants. Italy has fewer "foreign cuisine" restaurants than any country I have ever visited. This may be because there are relatively few immigrants, although many Italians believe otherwise. Foreign ingredients are almost impossible to find in Italy; even ingredients widely used in other regions of Italy are not easily found in the markets of a particular region. — Barbara Vaughan Princeton University email my first intitial my last name at my university dot edu (Or reply to dejanews email address)

Response:

> A great part of the pleasure of being in Italy comes from > the excessive consumption of food and wine.  Why would > you want to look for other cuisine when you are there, > ‘at home’ with the world’s best?

Most Italians are very moderate in their consumption of both food and wine, and I can assure you that Italian food is best appreciated when consumed in moderate amounts. If I’m not mistaken, this thread was started by a man whose wife couldn’t eat anything tomato based as well as other restrictions (maybe wine was forbidden?). Chinese food in Italy leaves a lot to be desired; I wouldn’t bother with it. There are plenty of foods that don’t have tomatoes as an ingredient. — Barbara Vaughan Princeton University email my first intitial my last name at my university dot edu (Or reply to dejanews email address)

Response:

  When in doubt, in Italy or anywhere else, eat Chinese.   There’s a good Chinese restaurant a few blocks from the Vatican. There’s a sign outside the entrance to the Vatican Museums that points you toward it.

Response:

>   When in doubt, in Italy or anywhere else, eat Chinese. >   There’s a good Chinese restaurant a few blocks from the Vatican. > There’s a sign outside the entrance to the Vatican Museums that > points you toward it.

Gee, the best choice in Italy has always seemed like Italian food to me.  The once foray into Chinese food was not a great success for us.

Response:

A great part of the pleasure of being in Italy comes from the excessive consumption of food and wine.  Why would you want to look for other cuisine when you are there, ‘at home’ with the world’s best? Roger

Response:

> Gee, the best choice in Italy has always seemed like Italian food > to me.  The once foray into Chinese food was not a great success > for us.

Usually in every place the best choice is the local food. I didn’t like Chinese cooking (as tasted in Chinese restaurants in Italy), but when I went in China I found very good and enjoyable restaurants there; on the contrary, Italian cooking outside of Italy is often questionable. I would explain this in two ways: *it is not always easy to find the correct ingredients or spices in a foreign land (for example is very difficult to find a good mozzarella outside of Italy, thus ruling out the original pizza recipes); cooks have to use frozen or canned ingredients instead of fresh ones or substitute them; *often the migrating cooks come from a particular region of their home country, and they are at ease only with their own regional cooking (not with all the recipes they have to prepare).

Response:

You would, wouldn’t you? Michael Forrest heeft geschreven in bericht … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->That, of course isn’t a criterium and only contradicts your statement: >I advise anyone wishing to take this poster on that someone who uses >"criterium" as the singular of criterion is likely to be so well >informed that they will likely loose the arguement – whatever the >subject. >– >Michael Forrest

Response:

> I have heard that "Alfredo" sauce is named after a Roman restaurant of the > same name that featured a thick butter and cheese sauce for pasta.

That’s right, I believe. The restaurant called Alfredo alla Scrofa certainly used to serve "fettuccine al trino burro", a dish which asked for a heart attack. The name seems to be used in Britain – and, it seems, also America – for any vague approximation to this, and some approximations are by all accounts very vague indeed. In Italy, however, the name "Alfredo" is never, so far as I am aware applied to the sauce rather than the owner. Alan Harrison

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  ……. Now could someone please explain to me what this "alfredo" > thing has to do with Italian food? It’s not the first time I hear > Americans talking about "alfredo sauce", and I have no idea of what > they refer to. Some kind of Italian American jargon, maybe? > Thanks, > Goerz > Don’t let them fool you with names. > I recall once being served an impressive and uncertain pasta dish in New > York by my gracious hostess. After tasting it I candidly asked: > ‘What’s the name of this dish?’. What a blunder! The lady was forced to > answer: ‘La-sagni; isn’t it like your mother makes it?’. > No, for sure! > Sergio > Pisa

I have heard that "Alfredo" sauce is named after a Roman restaurant of the same name that featured a thick butter and cheese sauce for pasta.   — Note:  Substitute pdgraham in the obvious spot to fix my e-mail address…GG

Response:

>That, of course isn’t a criterium and only contradicts your statement:

I advise anyone wishing to take this poster on that someone who uses "criterium" as the singular of criterion is likely to be so well informed that they will likely loose the arguement – whatever the subject. — Michael Forrest

Response:

>> As "freddo" means cold and "fresco" means cool (and also fresh) and "al > fresco" (two words) means out of doors, perhaps they are talking of > barbeque sauce? >"Al fesco" means "in jail" >caio >anton

And "al pacino" means with lots of ham. –  Mason Barge "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea.  If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."  – Abraham Lincoln

Response:

That, of course isn’t a criterium and only contradicts your statement: even though you may not have been served the dish by that name doesn’t mean that there IS no such dish by that name. On the contrary, you acknowledge that ’spaghetti alla bolognese’ exists as such and even though they seem not to serve it in Bologna’s finests, we all know and accept that it is just what it says: spaghetti Bologna style … It looks as though you might have to try that restaurant in rome, mentioned elsewhere in the thread: when in Rome … Matilde Bombardini heeft geschreven in bericht – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > >Very funny. Now could someone please explain to me what > this "alfredo" > > > >thing has to do with Italian food? It’s not the first > time I hear > > > >Americans talking about "alfredo sauce", and I have no > idea of what > > > >they refer to. Some kind of Italian American jargon, > maybe? > > > In the US "Alfredo" means with a very rich white cream > sauce (with cheese). > > > Most frequently "Fettucini Alfredo".  I have never seen > the term used without > > > an associated pasta. > > Janet’s comments are quite accurate.  I suspect that the > use of this > > sauce with pasta, in conjunction with an Italian sounding > name, has > > given many people the impression that it’s of Italian > origin.  If it > > isn’t, it tastes good enough to be Italian. > It *is* of Italian origin. It’s named after a restaurant in > Rome called Alfredo. Which restaurant Alfredo is less > certain. There are several, and I believe that more than one > of them claim the pasta dish as their own invention. > — >    Ken Blake >    Please reply to the newsgroup. >  I suspect it’s been created in the US for the simple reason that I’ve >never had fettuccinE Alfredo (please it’s not fettuccini) in Italy. >I’m from Bologna and I’ve never found in Bologna any restaurant serving >"spaghetti bolognese"… >Matilde

Response:

>>I’m Italian. I live in Italy. What’s "alfredo"???? >Thanks, >Goerz >See La Traviata. >– >Michael Forrest

Very funny. Now could someone please explain to me what this "alfredo" thing has to do with Italian food? It’s not the first time I hear Americans talking about "alfredo sauce", and I have no idea of what they refer to. Some kind of Italian American jargon, maybe? Thanks, Goerz

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>I’m Italian. I live in Italy. What’s "alfredo"???? >>Thanks, >>Goerz >See La Traviata. >– >Michael Forrest >Very funny. Now could someone please explain to me what this "alfredo" >thing has to do with Italian food? It’s not the first time I hear >Americans talking about "alfredo sauce", and I have no idea of what >they refer to. Some kind of Italian American jargon, maybe? >Thanks, >Goerz

As "freddo" means cold and "fresco" means cool (and also fresh) and "al fresco" (two words) means out of doors, perhaps they are talking of barbeque sauce? But then Howard Isaac’s book "Dictionary of Italian Cuisine" says that "fresco" is sometimes used as a name for a specific food perhaps they have got freddo and fresco muddled up and have something specific in mind. Maybe Howard Isaacs who posts to this group can help us? — Michael Forrest

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My wife and I are spending May in Italy, so of course she has developed a medical condition which excludes wine and tomatoes from her diet.  Is she going to have trouble finding good Italian food that isn’t all alfredo? Here in California, Italian food seems to be either tomato-based or cream-based.  I presume that’s not the case exclusively in Italy, but what suggestions do veteran travelers have? Jim Beaver

Response:

> My wife and I are spending May in Italy, so of course she has developed a > medical condition which excludes wine and tomatoes from her diet.  Is she > going to have trouble finding good Italian food that isn’t all alfredo? > Here in California, Italian food seems to be either tomato-based or > cream-based.  I presume that’s not the case exclusively in Italy, but what > suggestions do veteran travelers have?

American "Italian" food is hardly anything like real Italian food. With the exception of some pasta sauces, most Italian food isn’t either tomato-based or cream-based. In fact most meat dishes have little or no sauce at all. She will have no trouble at all finding wonderful food that she can eat. —    Ken Blake    Please reply to the newsgroup, but if you want      to send me E-mail, delete the "X" in my address

Response:

> My wife and I are spending May in Italy, so of course she has developed a > medical condition which excludes wine and tomatoes from her diet.  Is she > going to have trouble finding good Italian food that isn’t all alfredo? > Here in California, Italian food seems to be either tomato-based or > cream-based.  I presume that’s not the case exclusively in Italy, but what > suggestions do veteran travelers have?

Your wife will have no difficulty. The Italian cuisines (remember there are more than 30 different regional cusines in Italy) include seafood, meats and vegetables and a lot less pasta, tomato sauce and cheese that the popular North American impression of Italian cuisine. You’ll do fine. Pasta is freqently served with a little olive oil and some herbs (or maybe some pesto) as the sauce. You will see tomato based sauces but there is, in my experience, nothing remotely like "Alfredo" sauce.

Response:

> My wife and I are spending May in Italy, so of course she has developed a > medical condition which excludes wine and tomatoes from her diet.  Is she > going to have trouble finding good Italian food that isn’t all alfredo?

Hi Jim, I travel occasionally to Italy, I would suggest eating off the land, there are many open markets with quite a variety of tasty foods,(district-to-district), you did not mention what part of Italy you will be in.  However, try all the fresh fruit you can you will not be disappointed e.g. figs, oranges, lemons, limes, persimmons, grapes,kiwi, etc.  There are also alot of dishes that are served in wine sauces minus the creams, such as muscle/wine sauce pasta dishes, and other seafood varities. (Yum) Don’t be discouraged, you can always special order, the cooks are more than happy to accommodate the American traveler. You can always bake and take! Fare thee well, Jacques

Response:

Jim Beaver heeft geschreven in bericht >My wife and I are spending May in Italy, so of course she has developed a >medical condition which excludes wine and tomatoes from her diet.  Is she >going to have trouble finding good Italian food that isn’t all alfredo? >Here in California, Italian food seems to be either tomato-based or >cream-based.  I presume that’s not the case exclusively in Italy, but what >suggestions do veteran travelers have? >Jim Beaver >The Italian kitchen has so much more to offer, too much to list. Try fish

and vegetables other than tomatoes. Order your salads without tomatoes <niente pomodori> or <senza pomodori>. By the way, doesn’t the allergy involve unripe tomatoes only, which is often the case?

Response:

> > My wife and I are spending May in Italy, so of course she > has developed a > medical condition which excludes wine and tomatoes from > her diet.  Is she > going to have trouble finding good Italian food that isn’t > all alfredo?

I’m Italian. I live in Italy. What’s "alfredo"???? Thanks, Goerz

Response:

>I’m Italian. I live in Italy. What’s "alfredo"???? >Thanks, >Goerz

See La Traviata. — Michael Forrest

Response:

> My wife and I are spending May in Italy, so of course she has developed a > medical condition which excludes wine and tomatoes from her diet.  Is she > going to have trouble finding good Italian food that isn’t all alfredo? > Here in California, Italian food seems to be either tomato-based or > cream-based.  I presume that’s not the case exclusively in Italy, but what > suggestions do veteran travelers have?

You should be able to pick and choose what you eat anywhere in the world.  I would think most places have some sort of bread available, some kinds of fruits and vegetables that haven’t been touched yet.  You can always go to a market and pick up just the items you want.  Restaurants are a little trickier; maybe you shouldn’t make that the focal point of your vacation. http://www.unkie.com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > >Very funny. Now could someone please explain to me what > this "alfredo" > > > >thing has to do with Italian food? It’s not the first > time I hear > > > >Americans talking about "alfredo sauce", and I have no > idea of what > > > >they refer to. Some kind of Italian American jargon, > maybe? > > > In the US "Alfredo" means with a very rich white cream > sauce (with cheese). > > > Most frequently "Fettucini Alfredo".  I have never seen > the term used without > > > an associated pasta. > > Janet’s comments are quite accurate.  I suspect that the > use of this > > sauce with pasta, in conjunction with an Italian sounding > name, has > > given many people the impression that it’s of Italian > origin.  If it > > isn’t, it tastes good enough to be Italian. > It *is* of Italian origin. It’s named after a restaurant in > Rome called Alfredo. Which restaurant Alfredo is less > certain. There are several, and I believe that more than one > of them claim the pasta dish as their own invention. > — >    Ken Blake >    Please reply to the newsgroup. >   I suspect it’s been created in the US for the simple reason that I’ve > never had fettuccinE Alfredo (please it’s not fettuccini) in Italy. > I’m from Bologna and I’ve never found in Bologna any restaurant serving > "spaghetti bolognese"… > Matilde

Maybe it was created in the US, but in

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