Vegetables FAQ

MSN Article on Fad diets

Question:

From Guy Williams I only list this for reference. Another side to the story. Written for non diabetics http://fitness.msn.com/articles/editorial/default.aspx?dept=exer&arti…

Response:

> From Guy Williams > I only list this for reference. Another side to the > story. Written for non diabetics > http://fitness.msn.com/articles/editorial/default.aspx?dept=exer&arti…

http://tinyurl.com/3w3z for those with line wrap problems. Ratty — http://christmas.flyingrat.net ratty at flyingrat.net

Response:

>From Guy Williams >I only list this for reference. Another side to the >story. Written for non diabetics

Acknowledged but I had to laugh at the attempted criticism of no 7 the caveman diet. I didn’t realize it but my diet by their description has a name. Their description is lean meat, fish,nuts, berries, seeds, fresh fruit and veggies. I limit the types of fruit I eat, usually stick to berries cherries and avocadoes. Apart from that apparently I’m a caveman. According to them the long term risk is that I might get a carbohydrate craving and put back all the weight I lost.LOL Cat T2 D&E

Response:

This post not CC’d by email > Acknowledged > but I had to laugh at the attempted criticism of no 7 the > caveman diet. I didn’t realize it but my diet by their description > has a name. Their description is lean meat, fish,nuts, berries, > seeds, fresh fruit and veggies. >I limit the types of fruit I eat, usually stick to berries cherries >and avocadoes. >Apart from that apparently I’m a caveman.

G’day G’day Cat,   But do you live in a cave?  <grin>   The foods you describe are readily available in Hawkes Bay, NZ especially at this time of the year.  You could do a great yearly migration here to provide easy continuity. Another name for the caveman diet is the paleolithic diet which doesn’t obligate us to live in caves.   >According to them the long term risk is that I might get a >carbohydrate craving and put back all the weight I lost.LOL

The reporter was interviewing his/her typewriter. FWIIW I eat a similar diet and have kept off about 17 kg (37 pounds) for three years.   How about you? >Cat >T2 D&E

– Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       >#,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Response:

> The reporter was interviewing his/her typewriter.

I *love* that one!

Response:

>G’day G’day Cat,

Hi Quentin >  But do you live in a cave?  <grin>   >The foods you describe are readily available in Hawkes Bay, NZ >especially at this time of the year.  You could do a great yearly >migration here to provide easy continuity.

Excellent idea, while I’m there I could graze and fish my way north to Ngunguru and visit my grandmother. >Another name for the caveman diet is the paleolithic diet which >doesn’t obligate us to live in caves.   >According to them the long term risk is that I might get a >carbohydrate craving and put back all the weight I lost.LOL >The reporter was interviewing his/her typewriter. >FWIIW I eat a similar diet and have kept off about 17 kg (37 pounds) >for three years.   How about you?

Similar amount, down from 100kilos 12 months ago to a fairly comfortable 82 kilos now. ( 6ft medium to large frame ) I was lighter but I have more muscle tone now 82 feels right. Before diagnosis I had already dropped from 115 kilos to 100 kilos in the previous 18 months simply buy switching from coke to diet coke and cutting way back on orange juice. Hey Ive been a lower carber for longer than I thought >– >Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / >New Zealand,       >#,#< [ >                    / /     >"… and the blind dog was leading." >http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Regards Cat

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This post not CC’d by email > Acknowledged > but I had to laugh at the attempted criticism of no 7 the > caveman diet. I didn’t realize it but my diet by their description > has a name. Their description is lean meat, fish,nuts, berries, > seeds, fresh fruit and veggies. >I limit the types of fruit I eat, usually stick to berries cherries >and avocadoes. >Apart from that apparently I’m a caveman. > G’day G’day Cat, >   But do you live in a cave?  <grin> > The foods you describe are readily available in Hawkes Bay, NZ > especially at this time of the year.  You could do a great yearly > migration here to provide easy continuity. > Another name for the caveman diet is the paleolithic diet which > doesn’t obligate us to live in caves. >According to them the long term risk is that I might get a >carbohydrate craving and put back all the weight I lost.LOL > The reporter was interviewing his/her typewriter. > FWIIW I eat a similar diet and have kept off about 17 kg (37 pounds) > for three years.   How about you? >Cat >T2 D&E > — > Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / > New Zealand,       >#,#< [ >                     / / > "… and the blind dog was leading." > http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Hi there, Cat and Quentin, For a full description of the Paleolithic Diet, I found one on: http://home.iprimus.com.au/rboon/PaleolithicDiet.htm From my rough studies of the Aboriginal diet in pre-colonisation Australia, the proportion of protein to carbohydrate (fruit and vegetables) ratios was not as extremely weighted towards protein as this article indicates.  For a start, a lot of this information is based on studies of the Neanderthals, who are no longer around to comment.  Perhaps their specialised diet had something to do with it. The article does admit that a lot of genetic changes have talken place since that time. Secondly, the local game animals are very lean (minimal body fat), and their omega3 / omega 6 ratio is near to optimal. Even emus, an oily bird, have a lot of omega 3 in the fat.  Coastal tribes ate a lot of seafood of a wide variety. Inland tribes ate what ever they could access. Vegetables formed a large part of their daily diet, with proteins from meat as a "main" meal, not always readily available.  Native Fruit (bush tucker) is small, sour, rich in Vit C, and scarce – they had to compete with birds and other animals to get a handfull at a time.  All kinds of seeds and nuts were eaten, including some that had to be processed in some way to remove toxins.  Even (shock horror), grass seeds (a cereal), which were ground into a coarse flour, mixed with water and baked, unleavened. They experienced periods of privation, due to seasonal changes amongst other things, and ate just about anything that was edible, and obtainable, including the now famous witchety grubs, bogong moths, some insects, and reptiles and birds (including their eggs, for their protein.  One of the main reasons for their "walk-abouts" was the continual search for food, mostly plant material that was gathered, or seasonally available (and infrequent and brief) abundant food sources.  Most of the time however, they were somewhat hungry, and always lean in appearance. After colonisation, they were keen to exchange their labour for the energy rich flour and sugar that was paid for their labour, as well as the stimulating tobacco.  Addiction to the latter was rapid.  The carbs were used as an addition to their diet initially, with native foods still being staples. With the introduction of farm animals, the new source of protein became a cause of contention, with the aboriginals helping themselves to what they percieved as their fair share. Later history becomes more complicated, and I will not go into that. So, IMHO, the Paleolithic diet is not really applicable.  A hunter gatherer life is no longer possible.  But many of it’s basics are transferrable.  Walk a lot, stay a little hungry a lot of the time (with the occasional "feast"),  eat low sugar, high Vit C fruit (like berries) in moderation,  and lots of high fibre veges. As for proteins and fats, keep your intake moderate and preferably from a wide variety. As for the cereals, minimally processed whole grains in limited quantities, and eaten infrequently, seem to be the best bet.   We are re-inventing the wheel. Annette

Response:

This post not CC’d by email >Hi there, Cat and Quentin, >For a full description of the Paleolithic Diet, I found one on: >http://home.iprimus.com.au/rboon/PaleolithicDiet.htm >From my rough studies of the Aboriginal diet in pre-colonisation >Australia, the proportion of protein to carbohydrate (fruit and >vegetables) ratios was not as extremely weighted towards protein as >this article indicates.  For a start, a lot of this information is >based on studies of the Neanderthals, who are no longer around to >comment.  Perhaps their specialised diet had something to do with >it. The article does admit that a lot of genetic changes have talken >place since that time.

G’day G’day Annette,  It would be really sad to base a diet on what Neanderthals ate.  One of the great controversies surrounding Neanderthals appears to have been solved recently.  Were they absorbed or wiped out?   The mDNA that is passed down from a mother to her children but never from a father provided the evidence.   The Neanderthals are extinct and their genotype lost for ever.  Despite whatever thoughts may have about the bloke down the road he hasn’t any Neanderthal genes.  It is worth remembering that the mDNA determines how oxygen is used in the making of high energy molecules, very basic and fundamental stuff where food is concerned. Put simply we didn’t evolve from Neanderthal man though we would have had a common ancestor. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Secondly, the local game animals are very lean (minimal body fat), >and their omega3 / omega 6 ratio is near to optimal. Even emus, an >oily bird, have a lot of omega 3 in the fat.  Coastal tribes ate a >lot of seafood of a wide variety. Inland tribes ate what ever they >could access. >Vegetables formed a large part of their daily diet, with proteins >from meat as a "main" meal, not always readily available.  Native >Fruit (bush tucker) is small, sour, rich in Vit C, and scarce – they >had to compete with birds and other animals to get a handfull at a >time.  All kinds of seeds and nuts were eaten, including some that >had to be processed in some way to remove toxins.  Even (shock >horror), grass seeds (a cereal), which were ground into a coarse >flour, mixed with water and baked, unleavened. >They experienced periods of privation, due to seasonal changes >amongst other things, and ate just about anything that was edible, >and obtainable, including the now famous witchety grubs, bogong >moths, some insects, and reptiles and birds (including their eggs, >for their protein.  One of the main reasons for their "walk-abouts" >was the continual search for food, mostly plant material that was >gathered, or seasonally available (and infrequent and brief) >abundant food sources.

In some cultures walkabout had another purpose … the exchange of gifts with friends in distant tribes.  El Nino could produce horrific droughts in stark contrast to the milder conditions experienced in La Nina years.   To survive, population explosions had to be avoided, yet one still needed friends when needed, preferably someone far enough away that they might be experiencing different climatic conditions.  A distant "mate" who owed you one was essential to long term survival. > Most of the time however, they were somewhat >hungry, and always lean in appearance. >After colonisation, they were keen to exchange their labour for the >energy rich flour and sugar that was paid for their labour, as well >as the stimulating tobacco.  Addiction to the latter was rapid.  The >carbs were used as an addition to their diet initially, with native >foods still being staples. With the introduction of farm animals, >the new source of protein became a cause of contention, with the >aboriginals helping themselves to what they percieved as their fair >share. Later history becomes more complicated, and I will not go >into that. >So, IMHO, the Paleolithic diet is not really applicable.  A hunter >gatherer life is no longer possible.  

Ssshhh.  I have Tricia convinced that’s what I do on Sunday morning at the Farmer’s Market. >But many of it’s basics are >transferrable.  Walk a lot, stay a little hungry a lot of the time >(with the occasional "feast"),  eat low sugar, high Vit C fruit >(like berries) in moderation,  and lots of high fibre veges. As for >proteins and fats, keep your intake moderate and preferably from a >wide variety. As for the cereals, minimally processed whole grains >in limited quantities, and eaten infrequently, seem to be the best >bet.   We are re-inventing the wheel.

It may be better than trying to drive on square wheels that fit square packets on supermarket shelves. >Annette

– Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       >#,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Response:

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